KennyK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 478 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14460 times:
Can't find a similar topic so started this one, is there any more news on the possible order of Typhoons by Oman or is it just a rumor that the press have expanded on.
With Oman already having F16s I would have thought it better to go for more of the same, especially due to the limited numbers required. They almost got Tornado ADVs a few years ago but that fell through, this may go through at bargain price to the Omanis as the UK MOD need to get rid of some of the Typhoons they are committed too. Much as I would like the RAF to take all that are on order and the Tranche 3s I can see Oman getting some Tranche 1s or even 2s at bargain basement prices. The Saudis are already getting their Typhoons early at the expense of the RAF so the Omanis might too. Would make Tranche 3 more of a certainty for the RAF if they could cut down on the Tranche 1 and 2 fleet.
Art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14455 times:
Quoting KennyK (Thread starter): this may go through at bargain price to the Omanis as the UK MOD need to get rid of some of the Typhoons they are committed too.
As I see it the UK government is hoping for Oman +24 / RAF -24. At what price? I suppose that the bottom price is the price at which selling 24 Typhoons to Oman costs less than cancelling 24 RAF Typhoons.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 12714 posts, RR: 80 Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14412 times:
Well if they sell some Tranche 1's to Oman (who'll want them upgraded), and replace with Tranche 3's, why not?
A useful near term cash boost too, economies of scale and all that as well.
I understand that any such order would replace Oman AF Jaguars, now becoming a rare type.
BAE would not mind effectively keeping the contract with Oman in supporting the Jags, by extending it to the Typhoon.
Like the Lightning/Strikemaster to Tornado/Hawk and now on to the Typhoon with Saudi Arabia.
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4429 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14108 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 2): I understand that any such order would replace Oman AF Jaguars, now becoming a rare type.
BAE would not mind effectively keeping the contract with Oman in supporting the Jags, by extending it to the Typhoon.
The possibility of an advanced Falcon depends heavily on a large order (i.e., the Indian MRCA tender) without which only piecemeal updates are likely. In that case, it might be better if they let their existing F-16s take over the Jags' role, and make whatever they're buying next their main combat aircraft.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13847 times:
Wouldn't it be easier for the RAFO simply to by one or two more squadrons (12-24 airplanes) of F-16O/P block 50/55s (the F-16O/P models are Oman versions of the F-16C/D)?
Typhoon just seems like more fighter/bomber aircraft than they need. It is a big jump from medium capable Jaguars to multi-mission capable Typhoons.
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13641 times:
Quoting KennyK (Thread starter): They almost got Tornado ADVs a few years ago but that fell through, this may go through at bargain price to the Omanis as the UK MOD need to get rid of some of the Typhoons they are committed too. Much as I would like the RAF to take all that are on order and the Tranche 3s I can see Oman getting some Tranche 1s or even 2s at bargain basement prices. The Saudis are already getting their Typhoons early at the expense of the RAF so the Omanis might too. Would make Tranche 3 more of a certainty for the RAF if they could cut down on the Tranche 1 and 2 fleet.
I wasn't aware the MOD wanted to reduce the number of Typhoons the RAF will get. What brought this on?
GDB From United Kingdom, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 12714 posts, RR: 80 Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13498 times:
Well, the idea is, supposedly, sell earlier Typhoons but replace with those from later production batches.
Which would be Tranche 3, but the final order is undecided.
Certainly the RAF don't mind if 1) the original orders are kept to, or something like them and b) the extra production decreases unit costs.
The funds from the sale don't do any harm either.
They can also say, if you prematurely end Typhoon production you could be missing out on some major export deals.
Jackonicko From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 472 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13441 times:
"Wouldn't it be easier for the RAFO simply to by one or two more squadrons (12-24 airplanes) of F-16O/P block 50/55s (the F-16O/P models are Oman versions of the F-16C/D)?"
It would be easier, though Oman wants to keep its relationships with the UK MoD and RAF going.
And (I'm reliably informed) it doesn't like the F-16 and hasn't had a happy experience with Lockmart.
I suspect that Oman will buy Tranche 2 aircraft from the RAF allocation - and that these will be replaced in UK service by Tranche 3 jets.
Though it's important to note that there is no contract, no formal requirement document, and nothing has yet been signed.
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13393 times:
Quoting Jackonicko (Reply 9): And (I'm reliably informed) it doesn't like the F-16 and hasn't had a happy experience with Lockmart.
What is it about the F-16 that Oman doesn't like and about Lockheed-Martin that has caused problems?
GDB From United Kingdom, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 12714 posts, RR: 80 Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10443 times:
And to think Lib Dem economic spokesman Vince Cable keeps on about 'scrapping the Eurofighter'.
Does he not know that it's in service with the RAF for some years now?
Quote: "Oman has issued a request for proposals to BAE Systems linked to the purchase of about 12 Eurofighter Typhoons, only one month after its plan to also buy a new batch of Lockheed Martin F-16s was revealed.
In a statement issued on 23 January, the UK government said it 'welcomes the government of Oman's request for a proposal from BAE Systems for the supply and support of Typhoon aircraft'. The milestone represents 'an important step towards the contract', it added."
ThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1065 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6066 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 12): And to think Lib Dem economic spokesman Vince Cable keeps on about 'scrapping the Eurofighter'.
Does he not know that it's in service with the RAF for some years now?
Well, considering state of the UK Eurofighter fleet (they are parking and cannibalizing new build Eurofighters upon delivery for spare parts to keep existing ones flying), limited serviceability and availability, the very limited capabilities of the Eurofighter (it was only until very recently did Eurofighter gain the ability to independently drop guided munitions, and many RAF Eurofighters don't have PIRATE), and that the Brits plan on retiring Eurofighter sometime in 2030, he's not that far off.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 12714 posts, RR: 80 Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5965 times:
Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 14): Well, considering state of the UK Eurofighter fleet (they are parking and cannibalizing new build Eurofighters upon delivery for spare parts to keep existing ones flying), limited serviceability and availability, the very limited capabilities of the Eurofighter (it was only until very recently did Eurofighter gain the ability to independently drop guided munitions, and many RAF Eurofighters don't have PIRATE), and that the Brits plan on retiring Eurofighter sometime in 2030, he's not that far off.
I would not link poor planning, budget limitations, of the MoD, to the abilities of the aircraft, current or potential.
It performed well over Libya too, for all that. The only thing missing was bringing forward integration with the Brimstone weapon, not so long ago when something like Libya occurred such a thing would be speed-ed through).
(I'm still waiting for people like Max Hastings to apologies for insisting, for years, that Typhoon was purely an air to air platform).
For quite a few years, the only air to ground weapon cleared for the RAF's Tornado GR.1 fleet were 1000lb free fall bombs, are you saying that was an inherent problem with the aircraft?
garysted From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 54 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5921 times:
Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 14): Well, considering state of the UK Eurofighter fleet (they are parking and cannibalizing new build Eurofighters upon delivery for spare parts to keep existing ones flying), limited serviceability and availability, the very limited capabilities of the Eurofighter (it was only until very recently did Eurofighter gain the ability to independently drop guided munitions, and many RAF Eurofighters don't have PIRATE), and that the Brits plan on retiring Eurofighter sometime in 2030, he's not that far off.
Whoa! Hang on a minute there. The ability to drop/guide air-to-ground munitons on the RAF Typhoon is not associated with the PIRATE FLIR, that's handled by the LITENING pod carried on the centreline. Even so, there are very few aircraft on the RAF fleet now not fitted with PIRATE. From a total fleet approaching the ninety mark only a couple in the Falklands, about a half dozen early FGR4s on the OCU and the single F2 still inservice are not PIRATE fitted at the moment. Early F2s and T1s have been fitted as they have been returned to Warton for the FGR4 and T3 upgrade (which includes the basic air-to-ground fit only added to RAF Tranche one aircraft), and even a couple of the early FGR4's have since had the fit added so it's probably not long before the whole fleet is fitted.
As for the other issues, and as GDB above states, do not confuse incompetent planning, other priorities and lack of inservice support for any fundamental problems with the aircraft itself. Something that the above quoted politican and journalist would never admit to understanding, even if they were capable of doing so.
Will the aircraft ever reach it's full potential in RAF service? unlikely, as it'll never be allowed to, and will always be operated on a shoestring budget, never shaking off the stigma of being supposedly a 'cold war' machine.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 12714 posts, RR: 80 Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5822 times:
Quoting garysted (Reply 16): Will the aircraft ever reach it's full potential in RAF service? unlikely, as it'll never be allowed to, and will always be operated on a shoestring budget, never shaking off the stigma of being supposedly a 'cold war' machine.
This is why I thought the 2010 review was wrong, Harrier should have been retained to rather nearer the prior planned out of service date, Tornado GR.4 should have been run down from 2014/2015 (saving several billion in support costs for an aging aircraft), thus forcing the issue on further upgrades to Typhoon. Brimstone, Storm Shadow and RAPTOR pod included.
Certainly the latter two in Tranche 3, With a further batch taking those to 60-70 total frames,
Quote: "LONDON --- Britain's BAE Systems Plc, battling shrinking European and American defence budgets and eager to recoup lost orders, is close to selling 12 Eurofighter Typhoon jets to Oman, according to sources close to the deal.
Analysts estimate the sale could be worth up to $2 billion to Europe's biggest defence contractor.
'BAE and Oman are close to an agreement for 12 Eurofighters,' one source told Reuters on Tuesday."
Maybe something more concrete would come out before Farnborough is over.
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