Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21228 posts, RR: 19 Reply 1, posted (9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6366 times:
It is probably not a coincidence that both places are markets where G4's (present) aircraft could have some runway performance issues. COU has a ~6,500 foot runway and is a 950 mile flight; SHD is only 6,000 feet and is somewhat high as well.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Not being familiar with the COU airport IATA code. When I saw Columbia I initially thought Columbia, Maryland given F9 recent build-up in the mid Atlantic region. Columbia, Maryland is a suburb of Baltimore and a stones throw from BWI and thought that's interesting. I don't think Columbia, Maryland has an airport.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1990 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6139 times:
very interesting....I wonder if COU could see DEN service at some point as well. One thing is for sure F9 is sure interesting these days and surprising us!
bohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2407 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6002 times:
Is Frontier's service to SHD going to be subsidized? Shenandoah Valley has a small population spread out over a large area. The most populated communities are at the north end of the valley and they are closer to IAD. The only service currently in SHD is Silver/UAX 3X/day with Saab 340's to IAD. I believe that is subsidized. ACA discontinued SHD when they retired the J32 because they knew even the J41 was too much airplane for SHD. I just can't see an A319 being filled 3X/week to go anywhere from SHD.
quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6003 times:
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 4): very interesting....I wonder if COU could see DEN service at some point as well. One thing is for sure F9 is sure interesting these days and surprising us!
COU has great possibilities. A fast growing city on it's own and lots of people who don't want to drive to either MCI or STL in the surrounding area. The terminal could use a little expansion.
The only COU flights right now are on DL 2x to ATL and 1x to MEM. All three of those flights offer an easy connection on to MCO. I agree that COU-DEN would make more sense as COU does not have any westbound flights.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21228 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5983 times:
Quoting quickmover (Reply 8): COU has great possibilities. A fast growing city on it's own and lots of people who don't want to drive to either MCI or STL in the surrounding area.
COU leaks a lot to MCI/STL because it's not a bad drive to either. It's a particularly easy drive to STL, which is right on I-70. But I think NW and later DL's results in COU surprised even NW and DL. It wasn't long after they started with SF3s that they went to jets (this was long before the SF3 retirement).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5960 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9): COU leaks a lot to MCI/STL because it's not a bad drive to either. It's a particularly easy drive to STL, which is right on I-70. But I think NW and later DL's results in COU surprised even NW and DL. It wasn't long after they started with SF3s that they went to jets (this was long before the SF3 retirement).
The drive to STL is easy, but the parking and short security lines are no comparison. If the fares were similar, I think they could do really well here. MU is now in the SEC as well. Probably alot of university traffic.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21228 posts, RR: 19 Reply 11, posted (9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5943 times:
Quoting quickmover (Reply 10): The drive to STL is easy, but the parking and short security lines are no comparison.
No comparison, indeed. Parking at STL ranges from expensive OR inconvenient to expensive AND inconvenient (from bad to worse, if you like). I think DL has (finally) gotten folks from Columbia and Jefferson City flying locally with reliable service that is in stark contrast to many years of 19 seaters on ZK and 3C. Hopefully F9 can build on the solid foundation DL has built.
[Edited 2012-08-16 13:30:48]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
MLI717fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5863 times:
My sister went to MU so I've visited COU a few times (not the airport, but the city). It seemed a little bit out of left field for F9 to fly there, but it actually does make a lot of sense. There are almost 200k people in the COU metro area and it's growing rapidly, they can probably support a couple flights a week to MCO. I'm kind of surprised F9 went for this one, and not G4.
MLI717fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5856 times:
Also, they made a nice little shot at G4 in the press release (read MCO is better located than SFB)...
Quote: “With the addition of these two new destinations from Orlando, Frontier is now serving a record 13 nonstop destinations from convenient Orlando International Airport, which is closer to everyone’s favorite Orlando-area destinations” said Daniel Shurz, Frontier’s senior vice president, commercial.
LV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1808 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5616 times:
I know Columbia has grown a lot since since I graduated from the best university on the face of the earth in 2003 (oh man, has it really been that long?) but I am still questioning if CoMo and Jeff City has enough demand to support twice weekly service to MCO. I mean anyone remember the reincarnation of Ozark that was based at COU and flew to MDW and DFW? I think those two have more demand than MCO and it flopped quickly.
It's funny, I mentioned to a non-av geek friend several months ago that I believe F9 might be able to do COU-DEN on the 190's and squeeze out a profit since it was looking for places to stash those. I would love it if that came true as I could go back for football games.... althought I probably wouldn't be able to afford that flight on football weekends.
I did text an old friend from MU when I read this and he sent me back a one word response: SEC!
Quoting MLI717fan (Reply 12): My sister went to MU so I've visited COU
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5613 times:
I posted in the F9 thread SHD boarded just over 12K passengers in calender year 2011 according to the FAA. SHD ranks # 380 of the 405 airports in passenger boardings the FAA tracks.
As this appears to be the first large jet service to both of these airports I'd imagine the airport managers fell over in their chairs. This is truly one of those "be careful what you ask for you might just get it" scenarios. Time will tell what the populous thinks. These two city choices are outside the box and have undoubtedly generated some wow factor. Awe and gawk! may actually be better words. I can see the pilot expressions when the left seat at MCO asks the right seat where are we flying too today!
I'm curious if there is a take-off and landing requirement into these size of airports (say 5% of all flying) to meet or be branded a ULCC in the eyes of the FAA.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 18, posted (9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5587 times:
Quoting LV (Reply 16): It's funny, I mentioned to a non-av geek friend several months ago that I believe F9 might be able to do COU-DEN on the 190's and squeeze out a profit since it was looking for places to stash those.
"McDavid said he hopes Columbia's relationship with Frontier will evolve. He brought up the possibility of adding flights to Denver International Airport, which is Frontier's primary hub and a popular travel destination for mid-Missourians.
"I'm hoping we have more announcements like this in the near future," McDavid said."
I could see it - 4 x weekly DEN-COU - but they probably need to do something about the terminal first:
"Although McDavid was upbeat about the additional flights, he also sounded a warning, saying that the Columbia airport's terminal lacks the waiting area capacity to handle the extra passengers.
"This is a crisis," he said. "It is very important to move very quick to build a new terminal.
The mayor said he would ask City Manager Mike Matthes to come up with a plan for using City Council contingency funds to finance a short-term fix for the lack of waiting room at the terminal.
"We don't want to be known as the SEC school that has black-and-gold double-wides welcoming you to Columbia," McDavid said. He also noted that the terminal building does not comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.
"It was a great terminal in 1969. But it's not 1969," McDavid said."
JetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8 Reply 19, posted (9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5385 times:
Frontier seems to be growing a lot but I've heard plans of decreasing their fleet. Is the Frontier fleet very highly utilized? Any word on taking used A319s/A320s?
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
LV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1808 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5303 times:
Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 19): Frontier seems to be growing a lot but I've heard plans of decreasing their fleet. Is the Frontier fleet very highly utilized? Any word on taking used A319s/A320s?
I was thinking the same thing... where is F9 getting all of these planes from for all the new routes? I realize F9 is only flying the new routes two or three times a week but still....
quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4975 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 17): As this appears to be the first large jet service to both of these airports I'd imagine the airport managers fell over in their chairs
Didn't the original Ozark fly dc-9s to COU back in the 70s and 80s? I wonder how they handled the passengers back then.
Didn't the original Ozark fly dc-9s to COU back in the 70s and 80s? I wonder how they handled the passengers back then.
Yes they did -10's/30's. OZ turned COU over to Ozark Midwest with the OZ/Air Midwest agreement. OZ operated mostly FH-227B's into COU until they sold that fleet and they made do with the DC-9's until the feeder arrangement came along. They may even dropped COU for a bit before that but my memory on that particular is fuzzy. I do remember some of the smaller stations OZ tried to keep with DC-9's (Mason City, Ft. Dodge, and Burlington IA come to mind) but the DC-9 was just too much plane for those markets even with combined ops, tag-ons etc....oh well, they tried.
quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (9 months 1 week ago) and read 4727 times:
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 22): Yes they did -10's/30's. OZ turned COU over to Ozark Midwest with the OZ/Air Midwest agreement. OZ operated mostly FH-227B's into COU until they sold that fleet and they made do with the DC-9's until the feeder arrangement came along. They may even dropped COU for a bit before that but my memory on that particular is fuzzy. I do remember some of the smaller stations OZ tried to keep with DC-9's (Mason City, Ft. Dodge, and Burlington IA come to mind) but the DC-9 was just too much plane for those markets even with combined ops, tag-ons etc....oh well, they tried.
Thanks for the info. Do you remember the routing from COU? I'm assuming STL was surely a link in the chain, but maybe on to SGF or MCI?
Thanks for the info. Do you remember the routing from COU? I'm assuming STL was surely a link in the chain, but maybe on to SGF or MCI?
Pre-deregulation the routing was on the FH-227B STL-COU-MCI, and there was the occasional tag down to SGF and JLN, once the DC-9's hit the route it was mostly STL with SGF and JLN tagged again from time to time, not sure if the 9's ever flew to MCI.
Next Up: STL-CLE-RIC-IAD-STL
25 stlgph: They've had a number of frequency reductions from Denver across the board to several cities.
26 GentFromAlaska: With an average turn being less than an hour I'd would think the same airframe could fly three or four trips a day from MCO to different cities. I wo
27 GentFromAlaska: I stand corrected. My thought process was more recent. Still I should have thought about the great (OZ) in that Ozark also served CKV where I spent a
28 GentFromAlaska: Courtesy http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...ke-announcement-regarding-airport/ It looks like SHD could use some FAA SCASD Grant help. "Public Work
29 LV: I just have to say out of the articles written about F9 coming to COU... this has to be my favorite.... "We don't want to be known as the SEC school t
30 MLI717fan: Maybe the completely broke state of Illinois can dismantle some parts of BLV and sell it to COU....
31 727tiger: This excellent news for COU. Back in the early- to mid-80s, as an undergrad, I flew out of COU several times on the original Ozark (before the TWA mer
32 mariner: The double wide: Always dance with the plain girls - they're so much more grateful? mariner
34 GentFromAlaska: Lets just hope the airport doesn't use four wheelers as ground support equipment
35 spiritair97: Given that G4 and NK don't currently serve Orlando-MYR, do you think we could see that ever being started?
36 GentFromAlaska: Given F9 recent build-up of MCO and because G4 announced intention to leave BTV; I have a inkling BTV-MCO may be in the next round of F9 announcement
37 N202PA: Late to the party, but you're forgetting that Charlottesville is right over the mountain (about a 1 hour drive) and Harrisonburg is only about 25-30
38 GentFromAlaska: A little further up I-81 you also have the greater Winchester, Virgina area which has a fairly significant populous. It can easily take 2-3 hours to
39 mariner: Include me as very surprised. At the same, it's happened before - Frontier chose PHF instead of ORF, for example, (to the scorn of a.net) and that's
40 wepaman: Mariner, that route is bound to happend, hopefully very soon... First, we need to see what is behind door # 1 (COU), But we are happy for MCO... Wepa
41 mariner: I agree. I think it is one of the cleverest routes that Frontier has chosen. It will never be MCI or STL with multiple daily frequencies, but it does
42 wepaman: Will love to see IAH - MCO, I even go one better IAH - SJU... Wepa
43 spiritair97: I do agree that BTV may be in the next round of new service announcements, but what did that have to do with MYR?
44 GentFromAlaska: Doesn't the FAA frown on that! Not a thing. I confused MCO with MCI again mentioned in your post #35 discussing MYR-MCO. MYR could very well be a fut
45 point2point: Not if you're in Colorado and can find the right doctor.........
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