1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5758 posts, RR: 2 Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5077 times:
One idea that was brought up at Flyertalk was the idea of premium economy seating on international flights. I am not saying that Delta is actually considering this, but I like the idea. I think that the product should be offered on the 767-300ER, 767-400ER, 777-200ER, 777-200LR, and any future 787s.
Since Delta is introducing the new sleeper suites in BusinessElite, there is now a huge difference between BusinessElite and Economy. Seats should be similar to the domestic first class seats on the domestic 767-400s, with an 18.5 inch width and featuring footrests. Pitch should be 37 inches. On the 767s, seats should be in a 2-2-2 layout, while on the 777s and 787s, the seats should be in a 2-3-2 layout. The lost capacity can be made up by the use of slimline seats in standard economy class. On the 767-300ERs, the premium economy seats should offer AVOD PTVs, which are not offered in the current economy class. Fare classes for the premium economy class should be either Y or B.
How is this idea?
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4913 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter): One idea that was brought up at Flyertalk was the idea of premium economy seating on international flights. I am not saying that Delta is actually considering this, but I like the idea. I think that the product should be offered on the 767-300ER, 767-400ER, 777-200ER, 777-200LR, and any future 787s.
If DL were to adopt this, they would get the lion's share of my business.
Pacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4874 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter): Fare classes for the premium economy class should be either Y or B.
So I guess your thinking a premium economy a la United whereby the high paying economy class passengers would get upgraded? I don't know how well it works for United money-wise etc, but I must say that for customers it's a great idea and is a nice little perk for both frequent flyers and high paying businessmen. It might be the case that although it doesn't increase yields for Delta, it might encourage more businessmen to lean their way especially if they fly many miles a year (and know with Delta status, it is very easy to upgrade to econ plus).
OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4861 times:
Isn't DL still going with the idea to revamp the coach class experience with more legroom and the new seating concept? The kind where the seat pivets, so if you lean back, you aren't in the face of the guy behind you. If so, its completely different, but not just for the first 10 rows of coach, but for the entire section. That would certainly be a plus on a long haul flight out of ATL. Given the new BOB service coming and the IFE on all longhaul segments, its looking positive.
SkyvanMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 224 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4847 times:
United does not have premium economy. THey have economy plus which is just regular economy with extra legroom.
The 3 best planes of all time: Shorts Skyvan, 330 and 360
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4657 posts, RR: 45 Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4733 times:
No premium/economy/plus. The new seats will allow for increased legroom while increasing capacity. Pivots will be nice. Also, may be the return of the winged head-rest to Delta domestic.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4713 times:
I'd like to see Y+ on all skyteam planes. But I don't think it's going to happen.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18833 posts, RR: 64 Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4682 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter): On the 767s, seats should be in a 2-2-2 layout, while on the 777s and 787s, the seats should be in a 2-3-2 layout ... Fare classes for the premium economy class should be either Y or B.
It's already been done. It was called "Business Class" at first. Odd, isn't it? There's obviously a middle-ground market for the full-fare passenger below the level of First Class pricing and amenities (or what Business Class has become nowadays) and the airlines should have never lost sight of it. EVA Air understood it, and has been carrying thousands upon thousands across the Pacific every year in Evergreen Deluxe for a long time.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4610 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7): I'd like to see Y+ on all skyteam planes. But I don't think it's going to happen.
I would like to see all OneWorld carriers do it also....QF is thinking about doing it...it would be nice if AA and CX did it also...
764flyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4579 times:
I'm a pretty loyal DL flyer but was in Economy Plus on a recent flight from MIA-DEN. The flight attendants were surly and service non-existent but the flight was still tolerable because of the extra legroom. I have NO problem paying a reasonable premium for it but somehow doubt DL is going this direction.
Think such a product would dig into their premium Biz Elite class?
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18833 posts, RR: 64 Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4579 times:
I'm actually amazed Qantas hasn't taken action on it yet, seeing as how they were the first to have a business class with improved seating (while Pan Am was the first to segregate full-Y ticket holders into Clipper Class).
AASuper80 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4488 times:
I think Delta needs to seriously work on their Domestic First class first, IE, start serving food, and get rid of the plastic.
764flyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4482 times:
Quoting AASuper80 (Reply 14): I think Delta needs to seriously work on their Domestic First class first, IE, start serving food, and get rid of the plastic.
AGREED! Isnt it amazing that you can be on a flight from ATL-LAX or LAX-HNL in first class and get plastic glasses and plastic silverwear (not to mention the lousy food)? Amazing they get away with it.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4461 times:
Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 9): When is the BOB starting? I read in the April Sky Magazine that it would be starting "soon" but no date given.
Yeah, the carb filled "snacks" are pretty lame. I hope BOB begins before my JFK-LAX flight on July 24. I'll be on a 757 which should have the TV, so hopefully I'll get the full Song experience that we in LA were so instrumental in proving was a good idea, despite it being pulled, reworked, and LAX losing most of the Song planes in favor of other aircraft...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4657 posts, RR: 45 Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4451 times:
Quoting AASuper80 (Reply 14): I think Delta needs to seriously work on their Domestic First class first, IE, start serving food, and get rid of the plastic.
Be on the look out.....
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16): Yeah, the carb filled "snacks" are pretty lame. I hope BOB begins before my JFK-LAX flight on July 24. I'll be on a 757 which should have the TV, so hopefully I'll get the full Song experience that we in LA were so instrumental in proving was a good idea, despite it being pulled, reworked, and LAX losing most of the Song planes in favor of other aircraft...
Not sure BOB will be avail by then. And agree, the carb filled snacks are lame, but better than nothing at all for now....
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4425 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12): Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
QF is thinking about doing it
I'm actually amazed Qantas hasn't taken action on it yet, seeing as how they were the first to have a business class with improved seating (while Pan Am was the first to segregate full-Y ticket holders into Clipper Class).
...given how long their flights to USofA or LHR are, I think it would be prudent for them to have a Y+ class......though I'm a "OneWorld" Junkie , I'm seriously thinking about giving my business to NZ or UA when I fly to Australia...at least they have a Y+/E+ service which is not too bad in price/product...
Klkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 803 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4393 times:
I don't understand why someone paying a Y or B fare (or an M fare on Delta for that matter) would settle for ANY economy seat including so called 'economy plus' type products.
Economy is economy even if you get a couple extra inches of legroom. As a United 1K and Delta Platinum Medallion member I can tell you that if I buy a Y or B fare on an international flight I better get upgraded to business. I flew 190,000+ miles between the two of them last year almost all international and have never been in coach on an international intinerary. So to me this sounds like a waste of space.
If you book early and do a little homework you should have a good idea of your chances for an upgrade before you book.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18833 posts, RR: 64 Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4361 times:
Quoting Klkla (Reply 19): I can tell you that if I buy a Y or B fare on an international flight I better get upgraded to business.
A Y-class ticket entitles you to the main cabin.
Quoting Klkla (Reply 19): If you book early and do a little homework you should have a good idea of your chances for an upgrade before you book.
I wonder what the percentage of people on Y/B fares have the time to do homework on which flights may or may not have upgrade space. I don't think a Y+ product is a waste of space--it's a competitive advantage. If I was buying a full Y fare on an international ticket and one airline guaranteed me a decent Y+ seat without having to play upgrade games, guess which airline is going to get my business.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4341 times:
Quoting Klkla (Reply 19):
Economy is economy even if you get a couple extra inches of legroom. As a United 1K and Delta Platinum Medallion member I can tell you that if I buy a Y or B fare on an international flight I better get upgraded to business. I flew 190,000+ miles between the two of them last year almost all international and have never been in coach on an international intinerary. So to me this sounds like a waste of space.
..and the couple extra inches of legroom (with BA its actually 7 inches, and 6 inches with VS, not a "couple" as you incorrectly stated ) makes a huge difference!
Many people can't afford a F/J-class fare or have the elite status, etc. to upgrade..but enough are willing to save/spend for Y+ privileges....
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20): don't think a Y+ product is a waste of space--it's a competitive advantage.
....almost all carriers which have Y+/E+ have done well with it...I've read a few places that VS is very happy with their Y+ section and every time I've been on a BA flight, its had a rather full Y+ section....
LACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 4323 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16): Yeah, the carb filled "snacks" are pretty lame. I hope BOB begins before my JFK-LAX flight on July 24. I'll be on a 757 which should have the TV, so hopefully I'll get the full Song experience that we in LA were so instrumental in proving was a good idea, despite it being pulled, reworked, and LAX losing most of the Song planes in favor of other aircraft...
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 17): Not sure BOB will be avail by then. And agree, the carb filled snacks are lame, but better than nothing at all for now....
Ikramerica & Alitalia744, from what I remember when they came out of Bankruptcy and according to several articles LA Times, NY Times etc, in which links were posted on here, complimentary meal service was to be re-instituted on longer transcon flights like they serve to HNL/OGG/ANC. I was so hoping they were going to stick to this......?
Any word on this Alitalia744 or will it be back to the nice, high quality version of BOB that was developed and was a big success on Song?
Alitalia744 when do they plan on improving F cabin catering?
I too agree that an Econ + is a great idea, but doesn't that require a whole new program and yet again, spending multi-millions of dollars to implement? I do agree that there are many who do fly and have to do so a lot & can not afford P/F, J/C tickets and this is a nice alternative for that particular passenger segment. But if they do something of the sort, differentate theirselves with a domestic type F seating and catering similar to what VS & NZ are doing!
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4657 posts, RR: 45 Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 4305 times:
Quoting LACA773 (Reply 22): Any word on this Alitalia744 or will it be back to the nice, high quality version of BOB that was developed and was a big success on Song?
Alitalia744 when do they plan on improving F cabin catering?
The BOB will be similar to Song...higher-quality, healthy and tasty options.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
25 Justloveplanes: No, premium econonmy is not business. Continental and now Delta have a great product in BusinessFirst/Business Elite, which is basically first class
26 KLAM: I think KLM sort of does this. Now they offer their Emergency Exit seats with an extra 50USD charge or for free if you are a SkyTeam Elite member. Ac
27 Klkla: I am going to Sao Paulo, today. The B fare was $2600. At the time i purchased the cheapest coach was around $900. I would never pay $1700 more for a
28 AeroWesty: If you read what I wrote, the operative word is "was". Business Class started out at first as just a separate section of coach on Pan Am, then slight
29 Srbmod: I'd be happy if they'd give more of a choice than rubbery chicken something or other with some sort of starch, a veggie, and a roll so hard you can't
30 Skibum9: DL actually did a survey on doing something like this a few years ago. They were asking about various options for a three-class configuration, busines
31 CODC10: The prophet speaks! Seriously though, Delta's current domestic First Class product is grossly substandard compared to better offerings from AA, CO, a
32 1337Delta764: In what ways is United's domestic first class better? United's domestic widebodies have less pitch than Delta's in FC. Also, at least Delta offers le
33 Alitalia744: Prophet? That's a new one. Low-blow. While it may seem like Delta is spending money left and right, all of the expenditure items were pre-allocated b
34 RJpieces: Just out of curiosity, how so? What airline do you fly now mostly, and would you be going out of your way to fly Delta if they had a premium economy
35 CODC10: Well, it is what it is! You have been pretty good thus far, so if the shoe fits... I've always said, you have to spend money to make money, so there
36 Alitalia744: There's some forward movement, and more to come. The new seats, while allowing more seats per a/c (160 on a 738 vs. 150) should improve customer comf
37 Evan767: Here's an article: http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2007/0521/044.html?partner=yahoomag "Grinstein is now adding back comforts, services and perks e
38 Alitalia744: There is no confirmation of complimentary meals coming back to flights. BOB is however.
39 1337Delta764: Also, Delta is looking into interior mods for the 767-300ERs. I don't know if the same is true for the domestic 767-300s, but both the 767-300ERs and
40 AASuper80: Ok let me answer this. Delta's domestic first class is grossly substandard for many reasons. First of all the pitch on the 764 is 39" and 40" on the
41 FLYGUY767: It was my understanding that Delta Air Lines was giving their 767 fleet a 777 type interior for its international fleet. -JD
42 LACA773: AASuper80, If DL is so horrible in your flight book, then stick to the crappy frozen in the center, cibatta sandwiches AA serves on their midcon flig
43 LACA773: Alitalia744 & Evan767, as always, thankyou for the most update information! You guys are great. Welcome to my respected users list. Best, LACA773
44 AASuper80: Hmmm I found this reply most interesting in many ways. I am just speaking from my personal experiences, I wouldn't be touting AA, if I experienced an
45 Alitalia744: So now we evaluate an F/As service based on her hip size? Seriously bro...talk about discriminating. Well technically, it isn't the same thing over a
46 Evan767: Delta will be offering the same, if not better BOB soon. When that happens Delta will no doubt be ahead of AA on transcon Y flights, because they wil
47 Floridaflyboy: Now, will they still offer the snack pack to passengers who choose to forgo the BOB option? I have heard both ways on that. I know they will keep the
48 FLYGUY767: You have said time and time again how many miles you fly on American Airlines every year. You have a bias in favor of American Airlines, and anti-any
49 RobertS975: DL would do well to consider a PE product similar to VS PE... a seat equivalent to a domestic FC seat, free booze and perhaps an extra frill to the me
50 Evan767: I'd imagine it could also be an error by forbes..
51 B4REAL: I remember the survey - and was invited. Evidently the takeaway was to make all Y a little better than the rest of the American carriers. The one sma
52 LACA773: AASUPER80, UNFORTUNATELY, this FA WaS nOt WEARING the uniform red cardigan! She had on a tattered Fleece and very old Patagonia jacket which is far f
53 Panamair: It is an error..usual media thing of mixing apples and oranges. The quote "Coach customers on flights of 1,750 miles or more get one complimentary al
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, I'm seriously thinking about giving my business to NZ or UA when I fly to Australia...at least they have a Y+/E+ service which is not too bad in price/product...
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